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+ new background on memorial
+ slightly increased experience bonuses for large and long battles
+ Cash Shop: low level player can't buy items that require way more higher level
+ if game is aborted due to someone's quit all other players will be notified who quit
+ Rocket Launcher skill now has no influence on grenade launcher attachments' damage but still influences it's accuracy and minimum range
+ tweaked armor and damage resistance calculation formula. Now its exactly the same as written. If it says 10% that means exactly 10% of neglected damage. Before the update 10% meant 5-10% floating resistance. We decided to completely remove floating and fuzzy formulas in armor calculations. Perk now gives 1% instad of 2% and Turtle/Shelter changed to 2/3%, however in reality armor with damage resistance perks now neglects same amount of damage like before the update and without perks it became even better. When we finalize damage resistance/armor tweaking we will drop all damage resistance and related (Turtle Shelter) perks.
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Update 13-Feb-2009 - tweaks
Yes I did count armor bers. but the armor is better for everyone now. so everyone has 20% resistance, and we have what? an extra 10, and if we dont move, an extra 36.. 66% is useless. especially when other people have 20.
it used to be 10-20armor + 10-20resistance + 2.5-5 shelter
with 10ap shelter thats 45-90%. now its 66%. and other people just have more resistance. I wrote this.
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Shelter is not finalized yet, so it might be changed, but first we want to fix armor/damage resistance before moving on to shelter.
Thats fine, and I would be happy to help with the testing. but until its finalized do you expect us to stop playing? Becuase we are forced to now, our builds are wayyy worse. mine is useless.
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Yes I did count armor bers. but the armor is better for everyone now. so everyone has 20% resistance, and we have what? an extra 10, and if we dont move, an extra 36.. 66% is useless. especially when other people have 20.
it used to be 10-20armor + 10-20resistance + 2.5-5 shelter
with 10ap shelter thats 45-90%. now its 66%. and other people just have more resistance. I wrote this.
I think shelter is still overpowered:
Spent only 11 perks (yes, it is not a lot, you will see it at level 30+), if you and you opponent have similar armor and do weapon damage (improved military (30%) and 100 weapon damage for example), we have:
your damage to enemy will 100 * (100%-30%) = 70
min turtle (0 ap):
enemy damage to you will 100 * (100%-30%-10% (perks) - 0*2%) = 60
we have: 70 vs 60 (10 hp saving EACH shoot)
max turtle (12 ap):
enemy damage to you will 100 * (100%-30%-10% (perks) - 12*2%) = 36
we have: 70 vs 36 (!!! 34 hp saving EACH shoot)
max shelter (12 ap):
enemy damage to you will 100 * (100%-30%-10% (perks) - 12*3%) = 24
we have: 70 vs 24 (!!! 46 hp saving EACH shoot)
i think you will understand me
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Update 13-Feb-2009 - tweaks
i whant reset to my unit to becuse you do thid twik to me now not at lvl 30+ when you say it will be good for ,
when you change perk you need to give me a chance to stay wite this perk or not ,i invest thout to my play and yes i am casher i pay bute how mach can i pay , you make me spend more and more many becusr you change stuff and not let me have the chise to levv my bield at it is or build it in an other way,
this is realy suck.
maybe i stop use many ,
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I think shelter is still overpowered:
Spent only 11 perks (yes, it is not a lot, you will see it at level 30+), if you and you opponent have similar armor and do weapon damage (improved military (30%) and 100 weapon damage for example), we have:
your damage to enemy will 100 * (100%-30%) = 70
min turtle (0 ap):
enemy damage to you will 100 * (100%-30%-10% (perks) - 0*2%) = 60
we have: 70 vs 60 (10 hp saving EACH shoot)
max turtle (12 ap):
enemy damage to you will 100 * (100%-30%-10% (perks) - 12*2%) = 36
we have: 70 vs 36 (!!! 34 hp saving EACH shoot)
max shelter (12 ap):
enemy damage to you will 100 * (100%-30%-10% (perks) - 12*3%) = 24
we have: 70 vs 24 (!!! 46 hp saving EACH shoot)
i think you will understand me
Astor, your calculations are great except for 1 thing. with 12 ap shelter its not 70vs24. its 0vs24, because you cant shoot, you need 12 for shelter.
also consider, if your enemy put that 12AP (11 is turtle, not shelter) into regeneration, then in the first case there is no difference, in the second case its 0vs36, and even if he does hit you regenerate, and same thing with shelter.
add to that the fact that shelter is a tool, that can be countered. 1 stun grenade and your enemy is just standing there in the open like a complete dud.
shelter as i used it, was to soak damage for my friends. enemies waste their rockets on me doing little damage, and my teammates attack. your analysis was in a 1x1 match only.
Shelter is usefull when you dont attack. when you dont attack you dont do damage. how is this overpowered?
Astor, Im not level 39 yet, I cant tell you if at that level its too powerfull. I can tell you at level ~20. its not. Every friend i have keeps telling me to redo my account, because health and regeneration is better than shelter. thing is, a. I dont want to, and b. I dont have cash.
If shelter at a high level becomes too powerfull, make it less effective at higher levels. at levels before 30 (which is Everyone in gunrox aside from 15 people total) its not.
I still dont understand the need to change it. please explain this, because there are almost no shelter users. thats a fact. i havent seen 1 complaint about it in forums. if people start complaining its another thing, but they havent. The reason they havent-its not overpowered.
Now Let me ask you mods this - what new player, in his right mind, would take 1% resistance over 7health? I'm asking this honostly, regardless of wheather it is or isnt effective. the answer is No one. something in his brain is telling him that 7health is wayyy better. 10 levels after that, he will still chose health over resistance any day of the week. if shelter at level 40 suddenly becomes this big fuzz, then either nurf it for higher levels only, or wait till there are more than 2 people at that level to make the change, if it really is needed.
Now a calculation of my own -
level 30 vs level 30, with a weapon that does 100damage per shot:
70 vs 60 with 0ap shelter. ((10health saved per shot)). the person who took the 70 damage btw, has 100health and 4-5 regeneration over the shelter unit.
0vs24 with 12ap shelter. ((24health lost per shot)). he still has more health and regeneration than the shelter guy.
and once again, this is when used 1x1, not as a strategic tool, like soaking damage instead of friends (without being hit for alot), or wasting limited enemy rockets.
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i whant reset to my unit to becuse you do thid twik to me now not at lvl 30+ when you say it will be good for ,
when you change perk you need to give me a chance to stay wite this perk or not ,i invest thout to my play and yes i am casher i pay bute how mach can i pay , you make me spend more and more many becusr you change stuff and not let me have the chise to levv my bield at it is or build it in an other way,
this is realy suck.
maybe i stop use many ,
Read first post carefully:
...After tweaking of armor/damage resistance will be done we will reset damage resistance perks....
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I think shelter is still overpowered:
Spent only 11 perks (yes, it is not a lot, you will see it at level 30+), if you and you opponent have similar armor and do weapon damage
Well the point is you aren't using same guns. The enemy will have guns that do more damage and have longer range, he can see farther too or use other funny things like stun grenades etc. etc. Any 11 perks is "overpowered" if you compare it to not having those 11 perks -_-'
Part of me now just wish mines will need way more than 1 ap, assault rifles will lose longer vision range, and other perk lines lose their extra APs. Because they are equally "overpowered" abilities.
The good thing with shelter _was_ that it offered a new tactical option, you could move to an open area, without being killed. The only way I can think for attacking a camped house. Sure I can see why people think it is overpowered, because if you dont move you arent likely to get killed either, unless someone came close. But that was only if you didnt move!
ok rant over, I give up I dont think you will understand this thing anyway.
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If anything is overpowered at the moment its high level ugl`s two shots that cant scratch and always do 50-100+ damage ☹
Edited 1 hour, 14 minutes later by luke1976.
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Boo on weakening damage resistance
+ changed damage resistance/armor calculation formula. Now it is exactly the same as written. This means if armor is 10% this is exactly 10% of damage that will be neglected. Before the update 10% was actually random 5%-10% but we decided to completely dispose randomness and fuzzy formulas in armor calculations. Damage Resistance perk now gives 1% instead of 2% and Turtle/Shelter are changed to 2/3%, however real efficiency of damage resistance is the same as before if taking in account perks or even better if using armor alone. After tweaking of armor/damage resistance will be done we will reset damage resistance perks.
I just wanted to say that I am disappointed that the damage perk is now weaker than it was before, yes weaker.
According to the math you say that before 10% was actually between 5% and 10% resistance. Whereas now 10% is 10%. This sounds better but now the perk only gives 1% down from 2% per perk skill.
This means that for my guy with 10 damage resistance perk skill he will now recieves a damage resist of 10%. Before the change he would have had a random damage resist of between 10% and 20% because each skill he had in this perk was worth 2%.
Would it not be better to change the damage resistance level to 1.5% per perk skill as at least it is in the middle range of where the previous random range was?
Before I love this skill, now I might do away with it completely.
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It only makes sense if you always play naked, but I bet you don't. Therefore since armor was powered up total damage resistance is exactly the same. All the fuss about this is only due to the fact that we changed descriptions.
Back in the days we tried various armor calculations which went from extremely overpowered to almost unnoticeable, but noone noticed anything cause descriptions stayed the same, but now when we changed visual descriptions everyone started to cry out loud. Before doing so please check the actual damage IN THE GAME. If you will notice big the difference you better calm down your imagination.
And anyway there will be reset for damage resistance perks, so you will have a chance to reskill it soon.
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Astor, your calculations are great except for 1 thing. with 12 ap shelter its not 70vs24. its 0vs24, because you cant shoot, you need 12 for shelter.
Really? It depends who shoot first =)
In any case, im using shelter now and i will use it after perk reset. But after damage resistance perk reset you can spent free perk to health =)
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No one in their right mind would pick damage resistance over health now. which makes damage resistance a completely useless and unnessisary.
with regards to what you said bers, all it means is now you will have the same resistance as before with armor without shelter. but people with no resistance perks will have better resistance now. that is called nurfing the effectiveness of damage resistance perks, plain and simple. not to mention shelter..
Its getting a bit old now guys.. We keep saying the same arguments, which are correct, and bers you keep saying the same answer, which to be honost isnt satisfying.
Please at least make the reset as fast as possible, so we can keep playing (Even though we would suck alot more now. just a bad update..completely unnessisary.)
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Really? It depends who shoot first =)
In any case, im using shelter now and i will use it after perk reset. But after damage resistance perk reset you can spent free perk to health =)
Yeap I can. but I made this build based on shelters. that means basicly that giving me those 12 perks back wont make my build a good one, it will just not be completely useless. which sucks, Because I wont start over at level 23.
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total damage resistance is exactly the same.
You contradict yourself. On the other hand you say you only changed the description, but then you also say you did change the formula. I played 2 games right after the update and I was wondering why my scout is dying with 11 ap shelter. Then later I checked the description and realized you nerfed it in the update. So I noticed this before I read the numbers. Changing how normal armor works doesnt matter in the case with shelter because _everyone_ has armor. You still did make the shelter a lot worse and that is why people are complaining.
I do understand you want to balance the game, but now you just removed totally one option from the game, making it more boring for all. Now you need an insane amount of hp before 1% resistance is coming anywhere close with increased hitpoints perk, for example. Think about the amount of complains you took away 1ap from smg perk line, making all double snipers useless. This what you are doing, breaking synergy link with other perks and play styles.
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Forget it Late, they have their minds set at nurfing resistance, only god knows why, and no matter how logical and right we are, they wont change it.
Honestly, saying "we changed it before and you never noticed until we wrote it down".. thats gonna make us suddenly realize that shelter is still usefull?? Wake up people, shelter sucks now!! absolutally useless..That is, unless you're level 40and doing a 1x1..
They just dont want to see that late.. I dont know why..
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What you say is only subjective opinion which is ok until you start overemphasize on it, what we do is objective decisions made after extensive tests, you can like it or not, say it's doom and gloom, but we are not gonna change it only because several people dislaike it, because we did it to improve the game and make it better for everyone, not just you.
I've made many unpopular decisions back in the days, but in the long run they all apeared to be good, like the very old sniper rifles nerf (you probably haven't played the game then though).
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I think that Red Ranger is right, shelter in my eyes has become signifagantly weaker, and quite useless. So like what was done with the traps, i think you should give the opportunity to all players who went the shelter route to have the option to resest just them perks, the damage resist/turlte/shelter. I think that would be fair.
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When you adjust shelter, please also note that it effectively was nerfed due to yet another way to poison (most recent is the poison mine). There are no downsides to the health lines... while shelter/turtle get nerfed yet again due to their weakness to poison (the more poison options, the more likely they will be exploited).
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So like what was done with the traps, i think you should give the opportunity to all players who went the shelter route to have the option to resest just them perks, the damage resist/turlte/shelter. I think that would be fair.
It is written in bold that such option will be presented soon. Furthermore me and astor repeated that more than once but they still keep on complaining for no clear reason. Apparently they want to have full reset which is not gonna happen.
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