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hm.. i would like to test the "AIDS" grenade, puttek ☺☺
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I have a contrary opinion of your, i think that imp flash and imp stun are already strong. its the reason of the most of players use 2 naders.
Our oppinion isn't contrary its the same but in different ways 😉
We talking about whole balance not just a special situation.
In past poisennades was ok and sometimes to weak so bers need to raise the poiseneffect from a fix number to a skillbased number some updates before. Sure its powerfull but at medium level you are able the get blinded or stunned so you can't shoot nades anymore or miss them. The problems of nades is you just have a low number of nades if you get out of nades your unit isn't so strong anymore.
Sure it looks different at highlevels like 50 because the problems of non possible way of effective blinding or stunning. Also the problem of a really overpowered shelter with protection against everything.
You said: "Shelter like they are now, are extremely nescessary!"
If there is something extremely neccessary its overpowered. You don't think?
Thats the only reason: Shelters simple wants to less perks or he needs a more important weak point. You easy protect against everything. So many units of level 50 use this way. The only option is poisen so it looks overpowered to you. You said there are weapons with 100damage+ there are also nades with +100 damage but you are hardly protected vs such attacks just poisen nade with 69 damage is strong?
Back to the low levels. You said you use 3 naders with poisen nades. Ok every nader will start with max 2-3 nades you are not able to kill opponent within 1 turn. For example with my low level i prefer aksu+launcher in best case i can shoot 6 * 40mm and im sure 1-2 units of you are death even if im poisened but i still life and can run. Another problem of low level poisen is dispersion hard to hit hidden units. But we talking about level 5 the first level of poisen without many other options. Later there are poisen-resistence at armor and opponent could blind you so a poisen nader isn't so strong.
I see live2fight and puttatos think same way like me. Im sure henri you too because there must be a reason why you use 2 shelters with nearly same perks.
All together i think nearly all weapons and nades are good balanced. Just shelters to strong and doom units who raised the power of every weapon. Without such units i think every match is balanced doesn't matter what weapon or nade you use.
Because of dooms many player start to use shelters, because of shelters many player start to use poisen. But doom needs 42 perks and a doomunit isn't protected vs everthing, you can blind him, you can stun him or try to kill him thats his strengths and weaknesses, but shelters had no real weak point.
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After reading whole thread I see that shelter is a problem nor poison. I see 50's start using more and more AIDS granades, because shelters are simply unkillable in other way.
i dont know what all of you talking about realy.
the problem with poisons is the not direct hit, with 0 dis or 1 dis even with good % of blind on the unit. so every one take like 5 or more poisons nades and they prefer throw it on a unit then a nades like frags/rgd42/rgd5 ext..
so even with full poison resiste 3 nades will do you over 180 dmg over 3 turns. make you waste a lot of hp and meds for not being in the sight of the enemy.
while the shelters unit can be screwed over by stun and shot full on them.
and dont forget that if you leave your shelter in the open with good aps = he didnt do any damage and still a non direct hit with poison resiste will make 40-50 dmg for a nade. (just like 2-3 shots of aug)
now maybe people will have to think again if they prefer to take on themslefs poisons nades or dmg nades.
shelters are not east to play with and they are being dead in megas first most of the time
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Improved Acid Nade
what about another suggestiong guys ?
IMPROVED ACID NADE
skill to use 90-100 and does x2 acid dmg with x2 weight
its like shooting 2 acids in 1 turn. but has costs of wieght
just make the lower acid nade not so effective and this nade very effective.
acid 0 disp is overpowered... lets make a 1 disp nade that will do really
high amount of acid (fixed, unlike the lower acid skill , so u dont need direct hit)
because of the wieght... ppl cant take 8 nades like that.
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Also axes, machetes etc doing 70 fixed damage. It should be lowered and depend on melle skills of the unit. Or just lower the accuracy with this weapons. With 120 skills melle i can scratch with hammer 1/4 hits, but with axe wich is more skill required weapon no. This is non sense.
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Our oppinion isn't contrary its the same but in different ways 😉
We talking about whole balance not just a special situation.
In past poisennades was ok and sometimes to weak so bers need to raise the poiseneffect from a fix number to a skillbased number some updates before. Sure its powerfull but at medium level you are able the get blinded or stunned so you can't shoot nades anymore or miss them. The problems of nades is you just have a low number of nades if you get out of nades your unit isn't so strong anymore.
Sure it looks different at highlevels like 50 because the problems of non possible way of effective blinding or stunning. Also the problem of a really overpowered shelter with protection against everything.
You said: "Shelter like they are now, are extremely nescessary!"
If there is something extremely neccessary its overpowered. You don't think?
Thats the only reason: Shelters simple wants to less perks or he needs a more important weak point. You easy protect against everything. So many units of level 50 use this way. The only option is poisen so it looks overpowered to you. You said there are weapons with 100damage+ there are also nades with +100 damage but you are hardly protected vs such attacks just poisen nade with 69 damage is strong?
Back to the low levels. You said you use 3 naders with poisen nades. Ok every nader will start with max 2-3 nades you are not able to kill opponent within 1 turn. For example with my low level i prefer aksu+launcher in best case i can shoot 6 * 40mm and im sure 1-2 units of you are death even if im poisened but i still life and can run. Another problem of low level poisen is dispersion hard to hit hidden units. But we talking about level 5 the first level of poisen without many other options. Later there are poisen-resistence at armor and opponent could blind you so a poisen nader isn't so strong.
I see live2fight and puttatos think same way like me. Im sure henri you too because there must be a reason why you use 2 shelters with nearly same perks.
All together i think nearly all weapons and nades are good balanced. Just shelters to strong and doom units who raised the power of every weapon. Without such units i think every match is balanced doesn't matter what weapon or nade you use.
Because of dooms many player start to use shelters, because of shelters many player start to use poisen. But doom needs 42 perks and a doomunit isn't protected vs everthing, you can blind him, you can stun him or try to kill him thats his strengths and weaknesses, but shelters had no real weak point.
I agree 90% i think shelter is overpowered but doom units dont
Edited 21 minutes later by _Explosion_.
Reason: use quoting correctly.
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Hmm my nader with 95 skills will do max 56 poisen.
You can skill your unit up to 40% resistence, means i would hit with 34 poisen.
1 turn -34hp
2 turn -20hp
3 turn -12hp
4 turn - 7hp
5 turn - 4hp
6 turn - 2hp
7 turn - 1hp
together after 7 turns = 80 damage
What happen with 10 reg?
1 turn -24hp
2 turn -10hp
3 turn -2hp
4 turn +3hp
5 turn +6hp
6 turn +8hp
7 turn +9hp
together after 7 turns = 10 damage (maximum reduced hp is 36)
(thats nearly nothing you can compare this with a 40mm)
without resistence
1 turn -56hp
2 turn -34hp
3 turn -20hp
4 turn -12hp
5 turn - 7hp
6 turn - 4hp
7 turn - 2hp
8 turn - 1hp
together = 136 damage compare this with f1 but also without resistences so every f1 is better but such nades reduced because of different resistences, simple resistence of armors, maybe perks and especially of shelters.
If you have less than 130 hp poisen effect stop at 1 hp but damage nades kill you.
And btw lil how could you screwed a shelter with countable effect if a imp-stun just hit with 23% stun. So you need 3-4 imp stun and this unit still have full health and 2 ap remain. And henri said it at his postings even if a shelter used all hp you do less damage at him with all kind of weapons.
Im 100% agree with poisen get important influence at higher levels but i don't believe we should work at poisennade himself because at lower levels the poisen nade is and was perfect. So I just believe we should work at the reason why everybody high level player not used other kind of attacks.
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poison nades do more poision to shelter unit there saved ap .. that fine
what about making stunn also do more stunn to shelter unit there saved ap? this way would mb reduce the power of shelter units ..?
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then most builds would be wasted...
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then most builds would be wasted...
Yes but now is à shelter build overpowered
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Need..
armor piercing bullet, Perk
makes guns do normal damage vs high armor:
gun shots reduce armor by 3% per hit
& Armor Piercing bullet ammo for all guns
reduce armor by 2%(pistols), 3% (rifles/smg/sniper) or 5%(rockets/mg) per hit, same price as normal ammo but ammo does a little less damage
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Hm, 4 perks for poison resist? I see only 3 in fitting room. And what I see for 50% max? 4x15=60% max from perks, right?
For example: If you have armor with 100% and just a 2 poison resist perks and save 10ap or less per turn, than you have 100% poison resist all the time, right? Or can't be 100%?
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fitting room isnt updated, before one perk posion was giving 15% acid resistance and max was 3 perks, when outpost came it has been changed to 4 perks, every giving 10% resist
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